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Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Nick Howell (---.pool1.unallocated-111-0.orangehomeds)
Date: September 23, 2009 03:05PM

Can any one tell me what temperature the superheated steam is likely to be coming out of a Stanley type (Bourdon) 18" boiler? The superheating coil has a 10' section over the burner plate and a full length of 14' by the time it reaches the engine.
The only reason I want to know is because I am trying to find a suitable flexible hose that I can use between the engine and the superheating coil to allow for engine movement and drive chain adjustment.

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Rolly (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2009 06:52PM

Nick
What Pressure are you running? You should always shoot for 200 degrees over the saturated temperature of the pressure your running. No one can tell you temperature you are running; it all depends on your burn rate. Ten feet is a good length in a 18-inch boiler. Iím assuming your talking 18 inches in diameter. 445 PSI is 455 F +200 is 655F 550PSI is 477 F + 200 is 677F More then this is unlikely but I have run 800 F at times. If your burner just comes on and you come up to a light. Your cooking your supper heat. I have installed super heaters 14 feet in the combustion chamber under a 23Ē boiler and have not gone over 700 F when running down the road.
You should pick yourself up a pyrometer, not necessarily this one but something to do the job.
Rolly

[cgi.ebay.com]

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Nick Howell (---.pool1.unallocated-111-0.orangehomeds)
Date: September 23, 2009 07:27PM

Hello Rolly,
What I am doing is installing a Stanley type boiler in my Toledo steamer; the original boiler was a series of eight coils feeding steam into a pressure vessel which had two shells; these were held together with about 60 bolts. The boiler inspector was not too pleased when he first saw the, unrestored, car. As no Toledo's appear to be running with their original boiler I am working a little in the dark by using a new Bourdon boiler with the original burner. Original operating pressure was 140 psi (max on gauge 260psi).
Superheating coil is 3/8" nominal bore, schedule 40, 304L stainless.
Burner is cast bronze with 231 1/2" air holes, each surrounded by 14 2mm x 1mm jets; quite impressive piece of work really. Result is 3234 jets to take the fuel at 25 psi pressure. I have no idea what the burn rate is as I have never had the car working.

Nick

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Nick Howell (---.pool1.unallocated-111-0.orangehomeds)
Date: September 23, 2009 07:43PM

Rolly,

Now that I have looked up the thermodynamic properties of steam (I've a lot to learn...) I see that at a PSIG of 130 the temperature is 356F, 160 psig is 371F and 200 is 388F. So presumable if I can find a flexible tubing that can take a good margin over that then I should be alright?

Nick

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Rolly (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2009 08:35PM

Nick
They makes ASME stamped SS. bellows overlapped and braded in stainless steel wire flex connector pipe. I used a one-inch diameter rated 500 PSI on my 35-foot steamboat. I ran 275 psi for pressure.
Rolly

Attachments: Flex line.JPG (185kB)  
Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (Moderator)
Date: September 24, 2009 03:26AM

Hi Nick,

In the past we have used standard hydraulic flexible tubing, at your expected steam pressure and temp it will last for years even though you will be way outside the recommended specifications. They donít cost much to have made up. And we always carried a spare.

You can have a much higher spec tube made with a stainless corrugated inner surrounded by reinforced rubber, with a braided outer sheath, Iím sure these would last even longer but they are much more expensive to have made.

Jeff.

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Nick Howell (---.pool1.unallocated-111-0.orangehomeds)
Date: September 24, 2009 03:31AM

Thanks Rolly I'll have a look around for some. Now that I know that it can be purchased I can get on with planning the remainder of the steam layout. I will try to post some photos on "in my workshop today". Like your updates-veeery nice workmanship!
Nick





Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (Moderator)
Date: September 24, 2009 04:43AM

Hi Nick,

I think you need to aim considerable lower in you speed expectations, 30mph hanging on to a tiller is quite fast enough, it will feel like doing 60 anyway!! your 18Ē boiler will provide plenty of steam for your size car, as you say its going to be down to how well the burner works, from what I can remember last time I looked at your burner I think it will be fine, I would get it all together and see how it goes, you may find you have plenty of steam in hand, if not, there are many adjustment which can be made to improve the burn rate.

Jeff.

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: Brian McMorran (92.23.199.---)
Date: September 24, 2009 04:02PM

Folks

Word of warning, normal hydraulic hoses are formed by vulcanising and do not normally last long subjected to heat. Just replaced four hoses riddled with pin holes because system overheated to 180F, ok hydraulic pressure was over 4000psi. Rating for standard hydraulic is -72 to +212F
For steam cleaners they use a special hose construction good for 325F some as high as 450F.

Brian

Re: Superheated steam temperature
Posted by: (---.wavecable.com)
Date: September 25, 2009 01:57AM

When I first purchase our 1914 Stanley in 1985, it was fitted with a high temperature, high pressure, stainless braided hydraulic hose. At 400 psi and at about 300 degrees F. the hydraulic hose would only last for about 6 months before it would melt away. I always carried a spare hose and I was also always replacing it. Next I tried a cast iron steam line swivel that was good for 600 psi and about 600 degrees. Expensive too. They did a little better lasting at about one a year before they would wear out. I then in about 1995, I installed the Stanley steamer type steam line swivel. It has worked excellent ever since. I have only had to take up on it's packing twice since I installed it fourteen years ago. Where did I get it from? I looked at another Stanley steam line swivel, measured it up, and then I made one just like it. Simple construction. The steam line at the super heater has to be fixed tight to the boiler retaining ring with a steam loop installed between it and the steam line swivel. The steam line swivel has been trouble free and cost free for years. I also have been running about 500 psi in my boiler ever since I up-graded my engine with Dewey Johnson's bullet proof engine kit. I did the engine upgrade over 8 years ago. We still put over 1,000 miles a year on our 1914 Stanley model 606.

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