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New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 17, 2010 07:28PM

Again from Richard W. Foisel
Contact for pattern at,
foiselRichard@yahoo.com

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 19, 2010 10:28PM

And here you go!
Any one may build a copy for testing principals, but Keep in mind it will be a violation of law to attempt production with comershal intent, I am the drafter and designer of said turbine and have noterized propriotary ownership, of both pattern and Intelectual Concept.
Hav fun they are super simple, composed of a center Spool , or roter, a reversing and power valve, and two case halfs, plus one fly wheel, "not needed but good to have.

Attachments: Turbine Driven disk side view..jpg (68kB)   Turbine side view cut away veiw..jpg (51kB)   Turbine front view cut away veiw with full rotor in case first part..jpg (218kB)   Turbine front view cut away veiw with full rotor in case second part..jpg (99kB)   Turbine front view cut away veiw with full rotor in case first part..jpg (218kB)  
Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 19, 2010 10:39PM

oop's missed a diagram, here is the turbine rotor and it's instructions for sealing as well as the note, IT WILL HAVE TWICE AS MANY VANES AS ARE SHOWN!!!

Attachments: Turbine rotor.jpg (86kB)  
Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: (81.168.70.---)
Date: June 24, 2010 08:10AM

Hi Richard,

Thanks for posting this. I have tried to figure out the mechanical construction from the the pictures you've put up, but haven't been able to work it out. At start up, it seems to me that the speed of your feed fluid is zero. I haven't been able to work out how you can generate any torque at that point. Can you explain?

Treating this as a "black box", can you tell us what sort of efficiency it can deliver. What sort of power density? What working fluid and pressure / velocity do you have in mind?

You probably know turbines have a reputation for very poor efficiency close to stall speed. They can be very good indeed working at their single optimum "design speed". Of course, cars are notorious for needing an exceptionally broad range of power delivery rate that can be called into play "instantly".

What are the benefits of this concept? There's a place for fairly low performance if the cost is low or the power density is high. What are the key points that distinguish your design from previously published designs?

Do you have a photograph of a completed turbine "in the flesh"?

In my experience, for a turbine, the working fluid has to have a path from feed to exhaust even at stall speed, so a blade can act something like a sail in the wind & generate a force by diverting the working fluid. No working fluid flow equals no force. Piston engines are different. They have an expansion chamber - but the chamber needs a volume reduction phase to complete a cycle. Does your design have this concept of the blade flying in the working fluid, even when the blade is still?

Greg

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 26, 2010 09:24PM

Well? do you see the little lines in the veins? These are dovetail chanels cut like a pisto ring gally. And then there is a big ring cut just below the point that this chanel passes thrue the center disk.Each of these fully sealed piston faced veins then is sealed in the case against the round walls. This allows that the preshure coming in thrue the steam port will force these "pistons" around the disk "crank" and do so with great force just as would a piston. these "piston" type veins then They travel, rotationaly in the direction of steam pressure as selected via the round and cut to shape, rod or plunger type selector shalft, "intake valve" And spin towards the botom of the case, where the "round tube?" is the Exaust port. that then travels either to your exaust tube and flume, or to your condencer.These turbines are then stacked on a drive shalft and sized for expantion, by volume, in sieries, like the volume change used in a marine compound engine, sir.
Is this adaquate explination?
If not? Inqiure further of me.


Here are som copys of a set of my noterized drawings of the turbine set , the in a differant pattern on a drive shalf as the rear axle, they dont show how the spacing of the veins changes on each turbine, but it dose show how they are stacked.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 06/26/10 11:49PM by Fire-Drop_Technologies.

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: (---.dynamic.dsl.maxnet.co.nz)
Date: June 27, 2010 04:48PM

Sorry I'm not getting this. Which jpg shows the valving and if this is a valved rotary engine I can not see where the steam expands.
It could be the writing on the drawings explains this but I can't enlarge the drawings enough to read the text.
Cheers



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 06/27/10 04:49PM by Marksteamnz.

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 27, 2010 05:33PM

And no Sir, I haven't one in the flesh, I draft them, but have as of yet only a wood lathe, for pattern making, and most of the components fo a foundery,less some insilation, and a large crucible. I'm working on it, finances have been thin,"Starving artist" but with summer and a solid income the components and a small hobby lathe are in the works, soon to be purchased, then may haps I will be able to show you one in the flesh. Unless one of the gentelmen of your club or assosheates should choose to build one first. If this happens, please send confirmation of it's cappacitys and abillity.

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 28, 2010 12:10PM

Ok, lets see?
The case is round and two part,
it has a port on each side of the case,
this port is controled by a round sealed rod,
the rod can be slid, from one side, to the other,
changing the side of the spool the steam enters from.
The center disk is a big fly wheel, it has piston shaped fins,
with piston rings on them. these spin in the round tire shaped body of the turbine.
Each space once filled with steam has pressure in it, ti moves towards the bottom of the case to exaust out the port at the bottom. The expantion only hapens when the steam escapes the case, so a small amount of steam in each space around the case, alows for a huge amount of force on the center disk when it seaks escape from it's contained space. This force drives the turbine. If better or greater steam volume conservation is needed, there are two ways this may be acheaved, fist is to have several turbines all on one shalf, the exaust from one feeding the next, and each turbine followint the first with half as many piston shaped fins on it. The second is to have more turbines on the same shalft and to make the volume of each turbine larger than the first, so as to alow for the steams expantion towards its exit, the size change is about the same volumetrecly as you see with the piston size change in a Compound expantion three cylinder marine engine. See where I'm going with this now?

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: Fire-Drop_Technologies (---.cedarnetworks.com)
Date: June 28, 2010 12:21PM

This Turbine much like tesla's will spin off of hydrolic preshure steam,air, you name it it will turn it. And do so with no slipage, that was the triaght I was trying for, see?

Re: New form of high torque turbine pattern,available for building and testing.
Posted by: les nelson (---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
Date: June 29, 2010 06:46AM

Hi all just to throw my two penorth in , if I understand the design properly the top left hand port and top right hand port are the only "through flow" ports that will drive the turbine, the theory applied to the "pockets" of steam (or whatever)will not stand up as the pocket is isolated from any reactionary force and is therefore in equilibrium, if so, then no effect will be available to drive the turbine, the port at the bottom of the housing will just be an exhaust, this will not apply any turning force to the wheel,in fact as the port opens there will be some negative force applied, or am I missing something? one fundamental flaw is the inlet and exhaust ports are the same size (as drawn) therefore there will be very little pressure drop across the blades to provide impulse

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