Fire-Drop_Technologies Wrote:
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> And Sir?
> The ports one on each side?
> Are both intake ports, they operate,
> as a revercing gear when the rod is slid from one
> position to the other.
> And no force? It's going ti have the force of
> steam pushing to the void of the large open port
> at the bottom. Soory about the small text, Email
> me. I'll send you a copy for the windos paint
> program, then you can open it up and zoom in on
> it.

Sorry but if the descriptions on the drawings are as confusing as your posts there isn't much point. I really urge you to spend some time with cardboard and a hot melt glue gun. Providing a photo so we can get an idea would be very worthwhile but I have a sinking feeling that Greg and Calib have it right and you are creating a no expansion, no momentum change, non runner.






Edited 1 times. Last edit at 06/30/10 04:56PM by Marksteamnz.

Sir if the Exuast is a huge port, and the fins are, low pressure at the bottom of the turbine, and boiler manifold pressure at the intake port, and the fins, free to spin, then they will, just as water will flow down hill, so to the flow of pressure from high pressure, too low pressure, will ocur, the finns being sealed to the case, this flow will then exert the full force of the port pressure pluss leverage effected by the diameter as rotation, towards said low pressure exaust port.

Think about it as if it was a hydrolic flow,
the steam pushes the piston shaped part that is hooked to the center disk, each one filling up and turning, untill the next empty one comes around to the steam in port.I am only using the pressure, not the expantion with this pattern, do you understand? it works like a sealed up watter wheel, each filled round plunger spinning the disk in the center as it is filled with steam, and turns.

Have you any drafting or cCad back ground?
the drawings are done in the same fashion.
I'll see about geting a photo of some thing in the flesh
of sorts to show what I'm talking about.
But basicly , let me give it one more try,
As Caleb has gathered, YES it is a round flat disk with protruding "veins" or piston shaped round fins each with a ring, on it. they do, esentally metter the flow or volume of the media passing thrue to create the force. And just as water, or any other media, it is in static hold once sealed and past the point of rotation that the piston shaped vein has passed the steam port. This lack of expantion traight, only applys as with this drawing since it is a single spool, rather than a stacked spool, the design is for torque, like a hydrolic motor, but has Turbine type RPM. ability, or cappasity, The principal is of virtue to this, is that a very small amount of wet steam blasted in to each segment, will develop, a very high perssure, and thus force. But it's draw back, is that under heavy load it will use the same metered volume per rotation and thus consume more of your steam, at low speed under load. this is over come by reducing the round chamber volume as per need.

Fire-Drop_Technologies Wrote:



it works like a sealed up water
> wheel, each filled round plunger spinning the disk
> in the center as it is filled with steam, and
> turns.

Oh dear that does confirm it won't work. Equal pressure on the leading and training disks = zero movement. A water wheel uses gravity with the weight of water offset from the axis. A Pelton wheel relies on velocity and rapid release of the slowed water

I know you won't believe what I have written so you really need to make a model out of wood or plastic and try it for yourself with a vacuum cleaner exhaust or an air gun

Sir?
A gentelmens bet.
If I must build one?
And it works, as I have said it will?
I'll you re-umburce the cost to bild it?
I'm 28 and poor as dirt, it dosn't mean I'm stupid, or lack talent.
I will stake my good name on it as sound fact and sciance that it will turn and work as drawn " given a proper seal is fitted of the right material" and The round disk seal with a spring behind it is in place on each side of the case. As long as a full seal is maintained and use on this it will work on the same pricipal of torque as I have priviously described. Sir.

Richard W. Foisel,

You are stating that the pressure differential on the disk at the exhaust port will produce the force. That would be true if there was not an equal and opposite force provided by the disk near the inlet. This is why vane motors or pumps have their inner disk points of rotation offset from the center of the housing.

This offset makes there only one disk or vane that has a true pressure differential and provides the force.

With your setup, the disk which is being fed live steam and the disk that is exhausting steam both have live steam pressure on one side and exhaust pressure on the other. If the exhaust steam on the inlet disk is on the counterclockwise side and live steam on the clockwise side, then the exhaust disk will have live steam on the clockwise side and exhaust on the counterclockwise side. So the two disks will be pushing against eachother and there will be no force.

Look at this animation on Youtube on how a vane pump works, notice how the vanes recede into the inner rotating member.

[www.youtube.com]

I do not beleive you to be stupid, you just need to study a bit more.

Such as the output of your boilers for your bike. You state the fuel consumption as 1 gallon per 20 hours, which would be 1/20 of a gallon per hour, which depending on the fuel and if it is an imperial gallon or a US gallon, that would supply the boiler with 5,500 btu hr to 6,500 btu hr. If you have a 80% boiler effeciency, that is using the average 6,000 btu hr, 4,800 btu hour. IF the feed water is 70 deg F and the steam is 300 psi and 600 deg F then you would require 1,275 btu per lb of water evaporated. So you would have made 3 3/4 lbs of steam per hour.

If a low expansion, low compression is getting 15 lbs per hp hr steam usage it is running very well, in that case your engine would be able to make at max 1/4 hp.

If the bike, with full fuel and water, plus the rider equals 300 lbs, having a frontal area of 5 sq ft and a generous cd of .8, plus a rolling resistance of 10 lbs per 1,000, then you would get up to 15 to 16 mph.

If you could tuck in and reduce your frontal area to 4 sq ft, with a cd of .7, then you would reach 18 maybe 19 mph.

If you had a firing rate of 1/2 a gallon per hour, that could give you 2 1/2 hp, and you could get up to a bit over 45 mph, on the flat.

The engine is almost never the limiting factor for a steam powerplant, it is the amount of steam that can be supplied to it and the effeciency with which it uses said steam throughout its operational range. Also how effeciently it transmits said power to its drive wheel.

I am not trying to pick a fight or insult your intelect, I am just trying to educate you a bit. There are a great number of mysteries involved in steam power that can take a long time and lots of research to unwind.

I really do like the styling of your bike design though. It looks like it is going 100 mph just sitting there!

Caleb Ramsby

The boiler pattern may not be or may be as you say?
I hope it has better form and function, as the principal is of differing nature to most in use, Thank for the complement on it's look's.
Now?
About the turbine?
I have drawn a triple expantion one off the same pattern of function.
I will Email any one who would like a look.
As to the bike?
Simply a funn study I have been working on for some while.
As to the turbine?
You dont have to like the thought of it working and making strong force,
But As I said? I will stake my name it works just As it is drawn and described, and befor further Condemming it? I would ask you either build it and prove me wrong, or run a CAD simulation, but until, sir? You have more solid reason, than because it is differant form what is in use now? I will sand on my own understanding and Deffend it as right.
I have seen how each component works in other form and in differing construction, and been a mechanic proffeshanaly since the age of 16. I Do not doubt my own understanding of form or function. Sir.

"I Do not doubt my own understanding of form or function."

And that "sir" is the problem, you have insufficient knowledge to evaluate your own ideas.
Make a simple plywood mock up, this will be less than $100 and a few hours of your time. This will enable you to test your idea and prove it won't work.

Please do not demand everyone else must prove it by building a complete replica turbine as that is rude. If you want it built you must pay. At $120 per hour it will get built but no one will build something like your turbine for free.

Hi Richard Foisel,

If you have pdf's or jpg of drawings which are to big to load on the forum, send them to me and I can arrange for a direct link to any information which may help the knowledgeable steam people understand what you are trying to design and build. This may also help these same people explain to you why it won't work, regards, Jeff.