Email me sir, I'll send you a copy with the segments shown a differant color as to where the steam sit's prior to exaust, I sir Garantie the turbine works.

Such as the output of your boilers for your bike. You state the fuel consumption as 1 gallon per 20 hours, which would be 1/20 of a gallon per hour, which depending on the fuel and if it is an imperial gallon or a US gallon, that would supply the boiler with 5,500 btu hr to 6,500 btu hr. If you have a 80% boiler effeciency, that is using the average 6,000 btu hr, 4,800 btu hour. IF the feed water is 70 deg F and the steam is 300 psi and 600 deg F then you would require 1,275 btu per lb of water evaporated. So you would have made 3 3/4 lbs of steam per hour.

If a low expansion, low compression is getting 15 lbs per hp hr steam usage it is running very well, in that case your engine would be able to make at max 1/4 hp.

If the bike, with full fuel and water, plus the rider equals 300 lbs, having a frontal area of 5 sq ft and a generous cd of .8, plus a rolling resistance of 10 lbs per 1,000, then you would get up to 15 to 16 mph.

If you could tuck in and reduce your frontal area to 4 sq ft, with a cd of .7, then you would reach 18 maybe 19 mph.

If you had a firing rate of 1/2 a gallon per hour, that could give you 2 1/2 hp, and you could get up to a bit over 45 mph, on the flat.

The engine is almost never the limiting factor for a steam powerplant, it is the amount of steam that can be supplied to it and the effeciency with which it uses said steam throughout its operational range. Also how effeciently it transmits said power to its drive wheel.

I am not trying to pick a fight or insult your intelect, I am just trying to educate you a bit. There are a great number of mysteries involved in steam power that can take a long time and lots of research to unwind.

I really do like the styling of your bike design though. It looks like it is going 100 mph just sitting there!

Ok first ting you don't grasp or have not mentioned any way? Is the boiler is EMPTY OF WATER, it stays empty, it has controles to keep it from scorching, the water is misted in to the boiler as a near steam mist, or very fine spray, it is done so spesificly, to cause suden water to steam with not standing liduid in th tubes, it is injected at such volume as to create the needed volume plus 30% And this set up means the boiler only ever holds steam and builds it quickly. I am not doubting your understanding of previously used forms of boiler, but I would have to say your confushan and doubt come from a lack of understanding of the differing principals of operation,and function, yes it is a boiler yes it makes steam, but here the comparable simularitys stop, and your missunderstanding of it's function begin, the boiler is run with a blue hot flame, at a consistant air fuel mix,and supplys over 10,000 btu. as it is nolonger in a stove but boiler and is one rather than two burners, go watch a you tube film on Chinese valvless pulse jets. This boiler uses the same principal of induction, and will heat the whole thing boiler case coiles and all red hot in seconds, once started. Then this heat is spritzed with water as a mist. try this with a pan on a stove with one pan red hot spritz it with a mist of water from a spray bottle, the other pour some water on it. See the differance? one i still hot and the water steam the other has cooled drasticly and still has water sitting in it. This is the point of boiler function that makes it new technology as opposed to old technology. And the reason the boiler functions sent to jeff so drasticly differ from other forms of boiler, they are not like old boilers but use the controles to prevent scorching the engine and its pumps control the water flow as per need since the water is suplied by volume of water to steam ratio,as per steam used by volume.

Hi All,

Richard Foisel has sent me a picture of his design, I have split it into two pdf's so that it can be seen more clearly, I must admit, I can't see it moving either, it might spin if started but there would be little or no power, and it would eat up steam! you would need a very large boiler..............Jeff.

Drawing of main turbine.

Drawings of main turbine case.

No sir, the best I can do for you at the moment is a drawing,
I have a small wood lathe, if I can figure out a template for making identicaly shaped sides and convexitys, then I will attempt to make a simple wooden example to show you fellows, the principal of motion and torqueis like to that of a hydrolic cylinder in that the flat round piston top shaped pieces off the center disk ride in the round cirular case and have rings just like a piston, as well as one on each side of the center disk to seal the disk and the individual segments, thispattern will make sa much tourque as a piston driven engine because of the way the fluid or steam is allways pushing a "piston" in a circle,around the crank"in this case a disk" And just as one segment is full and has moved as far as the steam will push it another "piston" vain reaches the inlet port and is forced in the same direction and filled, repeat over and over untill you close the inlet. The full seal alows for this to be balanced like a Gyroscope, but strong like a piston driven engine, altho it dosn't as a single unit take advantage of expantion but only pressure, it has traights of both a piston engine and a Trubine disk. The copy of a triple compound example were emailed to Jeff, for copys inquire with him or email me.

Quite right Jeff it will eat up alot of steam, thus the need for it to produce high torque!
And be small.
But if I'm not totaly off my top?
It will make a huge amount o rotational force,
As would a hydrolic piston,or engine, and so it's
use would be to turn at a heavily over driven ratio,
Any aplication for rpm,or for solid slow rotation if on a one to one ratio.

Sir?
have a look at how hot one of these gets,
this is the same sort of pricipal used in my boiler to buildthe heat and be as small as it is.

[www.youtube.com]

but it is built with a frontal intake like this one.

[www.youtube.com]

But as it is for a boiler it will not make thrust or the loud vibrating noise, as it has an open un valved intake so as to run like one of these.
[www.youtube.com]

Hi Richard Foisel,

Your boiler is actually very much like the Serpellot flash steam generator of 1889. He used a solid fuel fire(coal or charcoal) to heat flattened thick walled tubing, with an internal passage of 1/8" that was when sitting dry and empty of steam or water. The main control of that boiler was how much water was pumped into the evaporation coils which were very hot and shielded by bits of cast iron. The steam would get so hot that the heads of the engine would glow.

Later he used liquid fuel that was pumped in proportion with the water to give a much more stable steam temperature.

The amount of steam produced is dependent upon the energy of the incoming water in btus, the percent of heat transfered from the fire to said water and the heat content of the fire. It is as simple as that. Depending on the model, Stanleys have a heat output from the fire of 575,000 btu per hour. That is 5 US gallons of gasoline per hour. Some have a higher firing rate some lower and some burn a mix of diesel or kerosine. Most of the steam motorcycles that have been built could fire over one gallon of gasoline per hour at least.

There is no need to make a model of your engine to prove or disprove its function. Simple math can do that for us. As you said your turbine is like a piston engine. Piston engines have only one piston with high pressure steam on one side and exhaust on the other, this produces the pressure differential that moves the piston and all that is attached to it.

Look at the drawing that your sent in of the spaces between the disks being filled with live or exhaust steam. This is a matter of pressure. The space between the disks counterclockwise of the one being filled with live steam has only exhaust in it. So the pressure of the live steam would want to push at that point in a counterclockwise direction.

Now look at the bottom where the exhaust is occuring, live steam in one chamber and exhaust beside it, clockwise of it. This pressure differential would try to move the disks clockwise.

So, at inlet there is a pressure differential trying to move it one way and at the exhaust the exact same pressure differential trying to move it the other way. This is a balanced mechanism and would only move if the shaft was turned by an outside force. It is not an engine it is a metering device.

I have a suggestion. Go to a local University and talk to a mechanical engineer. Even if you are not enrolled they are generally rather cordial and will talk to you. Draw on the chalk board your design and ask him or her their professional opinion of it.

Caleb Ramsby

Caleb?
Sir?
Your completly incorect.
I didn't get a engineering Degree, but took engine mathamatics, priciple, funtion, and Theory and was well enough verced in the subject to be made a student instructor.
You sir are quite wrong. The turbine function has no Exaust back pressure of great enough nature to counter the function of the boilers pressure seeking escape. Go do YOUR MATH. Sir.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 07/07/10 12:29AM by Fire-Drop_Technologies.

Richard,

A turbine works with the free passage of a fluid, you know this.

In a regular turbine the steam passes through the nozzle very rapidly and impacts the blades converting a portion of the inertial energy of the fluid to the blades. This is principally a very powerfull leak.

Your design has disks that trap the steam in pockets.

When you would open the inlet valve steam would rush into the pocket and fill it. The pockets are sealed as you have described, so they would fill quickly. The only force existing there would be the inertia of the steam filling the pocket, which would be very little.

Once the first pocket is full of steam then unless the inertia of the steam entering it was enough to spin it to the next pocket it will stop moving!

It's just like you said, use the math. The first pocket has the force of the inlet steam pushing against both of the disks that contain it right! That would be the defenition of a container right! At this point the pockets on BOTH sides of the live steam filled pocket are filled with a gas at the exhaust pressure. So there is no unbalanced force to move the machine!

I am done with this, I should not have commented in the first place and am now filled with regret about this communication.

Your mind is not going to change and unfortunatly you may end up wasting a lot of your cash on this project.

"The only way to learn from our mistakes, is to recgonize them as such." Caleb Ramsby