20.10.2015
Hello Mike,
Yes, it certainly is the modern petrol with ethanol in it that is causing the problems. My 1902 White has always gone well on simple unleaded petrol and not clogged up with carbon. I usually cleaned the burner, vaporizer and pilot light out once a year on that car.
From about two years ago it started to get weak on the hills and had difficulty making them on the plain unleaded. It was a little more clogged up with carbon in the pilot light. The main flame seemed to have lost much of the bright blue base sitting just above the grate. I added half a gallon of diesel in five of petrol on this car which made it steam better but it soon clogged up the pilot light. More diesel was a disaster!
After several failed efforts I got to half a gallon of good paraffin ( lamp oil), with an additive to help vaporization, in about five gallons of unleaded petrol and this seems to work quite well. The 1903 car is about the same but I find that a gallon of paraffin is better in the six gallons of petrol - a full tank. Getting the pilot light going is a bit slower, I often use a blowlamp to help now which I did not use before. A smaller jet is needed; I have gone down 5 thou at present on both cars and the tank pressure needs to go up by about 5 to 10 psi.

All this is not really a good answer. I did not realize that any non-ethanol fuel is still available other than at about £25 per gallon. I thought that all unleaded had to have ethanol in it by law now. On looking on the internet, BP super unleaded is available about 40 miles away in mid Cornwall.
Oddly enough my son William put me onto the hint that the early long stroke engines such as the Jowett’s that we both had run much better with a couple of pints of paraffin in the petrol. They are smoother and have more power; presumably it is reducing the octane to nearer for what the cars were designed.
Bob

On a slightly different tack - main burner fuel.

One suggestion is to use aviation kerosene JetA1 which is basically kerosene but made to a very tight spec, instead of parafin or central heating oil, which are acknowledged to be very variable. This gets away from the dreaded ethanol and eliminates the need for adding diesel to your main fuel mixture.

A chum working on the Rover BRM Le Mans racer found that the gas turbine would smoke, flame-out, and do all sorts of nasty tricks on commercial paraffin but runs perfectly on JetA1. As a jet engine is basically a gigantic vaporising burner there is every reason to think that JetA1 (that's the generic name for the stuff, no connection with the Jet company) would work and this has been tried by the current owner of my H5 - it does work a treat. Many small airfields will stock it.

For the pilot - Avgas gasolene is still a leaded fuel so not suitable for a vapourising burner.

Mike

I should have replied earlier but I've been more in the garage more than in front of a screen....

After four years of various degrees of advice from steam experts toward getting my Toledo up and running, desipte my wish for that to be as close to its original set up as possible, I was still having problem with the maim jet only producing a weak and wishy washy stream of vapour. Even with the fuel tank pressure up at 50 psi, which is the top of the gauge on a Toledo, we were only still only just getting something like the blast of fuel vapour that I had seen on other cars.

And then, whilst peering under both Bob and Arnould's 1903 Whites when they were firing up on the Midlands Meander this year, it clicked.....I may have plumbed in the steam automatic the wrong way around! Following the original Toledo layout is all very good if you know that there are plenty of examples successfully running around today or you have some original handbooks to work from, but I don't, and of the other Toledo's that are running none have the original pilot lights or burners.

I had the automatic holding back vapourised fuel,just before the main jet; the Whites and Stanleys hold back raw fuel before the vapourising coil. Consequently I was not gaining the increase in pressure when the fuel cahnged to a vapour inside the coil (P=VxT). A quick replumb of the fuel lines, fire up again and WOW! What a difference, a proper blast of vapour going up the inlet tube with the fuel pressure gauge reading just 30 psi. Four years of having the automatic the wrong way around, four year years!

So now I am starting all over again with fuel mix trials and jet sizes. To date: after running ten miles with Bob and John Dyke, in their own steam transport, to the pub for lunch on teh way back we started havimng blow backs and a weakening pilot light flame. Back home the next day I found the vapourising tube, at the pilot light end, completely filled with carbon. Incredible that any vapour got throught at all. The fuel mix had been 75% unleaded petrol 25% kerosene (actually Paraffin Extra, Caldo's "Steam Car Fuel") and there were times when the vapourising tube, where it enters the pilot light casting, was glowing orange; so too hot? But too hot for what, the unleaded petrol or the kero?) I lean towards the unleaded petrol, but have no hard proof to go on, but it is unlikely to be the, jet fuel, keroscene.


Other minor problems were a steam leak and a loosening safety valve. The steam leak was not, as Bob thinks, the amazingly designed and extremely reliable Toledo flexible engine mounting--a hollow, steam proof but easily adjustable 3" ball joint--but came from two weak threads from cylinder head bolts that enter the steam space on the top face of the block; re-tapping a size up has sorted the problem.

I made a new vapourising tube to replace the blocked one, this time with a route around the edge of the main burner in an attempt to make it cooler; and fired up with pure kerosene on Friday night. Lovely blue flames on both pilot and main burner. Last Saturday morning, warming up in readiness to meet the Dyke bothers and their two White's I had a couple of blow backs through the inlet tube when the steam automatic opened up the main jet. And then running up and down the lane I had nothing but blow backs and could not get the main jet to light up the burner normally at all. And yesterday all went well on pure keroscene, with the car on axle stands, until the burner pan got up to temperature and the main jet would not light without blowing back.

Just a week to go before I have to drive the 320 miles to the "The Smoke"--London--to get in tune for the Lonodn to Brighton Run.

I had better get off this screen.....!

Hi Nick,
How long is your vapouriser? If you are running petrol on it's own, say, the vapouriser really only needs to be a straight tube, going from one side of the burner to the other. This could be your problem, or it could be that the burner is running too lean (believe it or not a burner can smoke if it is too lean, as the burn is not clean). As you probably know, an internal combustion engine that is running lean will run hot-could be the same with your burner, thus causing the vapour to "flash off" when it comes in contact with the venturi. So you could try a bigger jet, to see what differences that makes? Just a thought.
Best Wishes
George

Hi George,

I have so many vapourising "coils" in teh garage that I haven't measured the one in the car yet. The inlet is one side of the burner and the pilot ligt is directly opposite; present vapourisor is an S shape, going over the hottest part at the middle of the burner first. The Cooler previous one went around the outside but was too cool for straight kero. This morning two trails, one staright kero agaoin with same blow backs when it all became hot; changed to 25% Hexane and 75% kero, same problem even with jet sizes going from 35 thou up to 49. I cleaned out the inlet tube and as much of the inside of the burner as I could--my inlet tube is underneath and comes up in the middle of the burner--but same problem when it was all hot. 920 C to 1060 C was temperature measured in teh viewing hole and above the flames. Same problem when it had all cooled down a little. So now it is coffee time and viewing the internet for solutions. I'll try your suggestion of bigger jets first before I change fuels again. Though my kero is actaully Paffin extar with only 5 parts mer million of sulphur I might try Mike's suggestion of Jet Fuel as well.

Nick

As I have wandered off the topic of "Whistling Billy Replica" I have started another thread called "Fuels and blow backs".

Nick

3.11.2015
I still have not heard of the steam cars progress on the London to Brighton Run but at least they had good weather.
I have been finishing off bits on the 1903 White. As I acquired the car, it had lost its toolbox which is a feature on the right running board.
Last week I completed the restoration of an old toolbox that we picked up some years ago. It had a rotten bottom and the top rubber matting and brass lining were beyond hope of repair but it was the correct size and I even found a key for it. When I got the car, a running board support came with it, so I then made a matching but lighter second bracket for it to mount on, doing a bit of black-smithing shaping and bending the metal with heat. Unfortunately I now have difficulty wielding a heavy hammer due to arthritis everywhere! There were already holes for the main bracket in the chassis making it a little near the center taking most of the weight; hence the front bracket could be lighter. I need eventually to get the new brass lining around the top of the box nickel plated as everything else on the car has this finish. I used pyramid pattern rubber matting for the top. I will probably eventually paint it the same colour as the car to make it less prominent.
The tool box and its mountings need to be strong enough to also act as a step up for the car driver. All is fitted and this now means that the rear passengers are not wriggling around a toolbox. There is little spare space in the back of the “rear entrance Tonneau”.
I am now trying to find a good basket maker to reconstruct the baskets that go on the rear mudguards so that water proof clothing can be kept out of the back.
The second job that I did last week was to sort out the mechanical air pump on this car. These are simple but can be troublesome to get working well.
The first problem that need sorting were the two clack valves on which I have flattened the top surface a little to make the ball sit on a sharper edge rather than down a cone. I have increased the size of the balls from 5/16 inch to 11/32 inch (3/8 inch was too large). I also made adjustable caps for these which are threaded 28 TPI so each turn is about 36 thou. I adjusted them by screwing the top bolt down onto the ball and then returning it 2/3 turn to give about 25 thou clearance before locking it with the lock nut.
The pump needed cleaning of oil that had leaked out of the front crosshead from where it is driven. After cleaning, I fitted a new leather washer and adjusted the stroke so that there was minimal dead space at the bottom of the stroke. This is very important as one can easily loose half the pumping ability here. I also cleaned out the small holes at the top of the stroke where the pump picks up the air. On checking, there was a slight leak on the hose from the pump to the turn off valve. This and the leaking clack valves had meant that the leakage was more than the pumping ability which had also been reduced by the oil.
Yesterday, I drove the car out on a trip around going to “St. Just Feast” three miles up the road from me, being careful to arrive after the horses and hounds had gone. I took the long road via Sancreed each way and found that the air pump was working alright if a little slowly as does the one on my 1902 White. The car continues to fire easily and run well on one gallon of paraffin plus vaporizing additive to six gallons of petrol. I shall now put its winter covers on and return to working on Billy.
Bob

8.11.2015
The last couple of days I have been doing some machining on the block of engine H 383 ( Billy’s spare engine) on which I cracked the block at Shelsley Walsh after I had an over-pressure problem after being held up on the line for too long. During the welding process it had been severely heated and all the gasket surfaces had been ruined. I decided to have a go at these myself rather than let my usual engineering company do it when they rebore it and put a liner in. As well as saving about £200, I get better control of removing the minimal amount of metal. This is very relevant as the piston “clearance” is set to the 16th of an inch. Removing much more than a sixteenth at each end of the block can obviously cause clearance problems for the piston. I can accept a slightly imperfect surface which will still seal where perhaps the professionals need to make it look more perfect.
I have a Bridgeport milling machine which works well. Most of the time is taken with carefully setting up the job having made sure that the head was cutting evenly with the three carbide-tipped head surface cutter. Then it was just working away carefully using the automatic feed on the long slide while working the cross-slide for the circles.
Having done this, I then went on and drilled and re-threaded the holes that had been blocked by weld using an old cylinder head as a template with a tube around the tapping drill to make sure each hole was truly centered.
Anyway all seems alright and the block is now ready to go off and have the bore recut and a liner inserted hopefully bringing the bore back to 5 inches on the LP side. I can accept a smaller LP cylinder if essential to keep strength up.
The next job is to pull apart the bottom and crankshaft of engine H4 to get the bearings properly sorted as they tend to rumble away and that engine still has its original bearing cases in it.
I have the bottom half of H 383 and the block off H 4 in the car at present. Soon I am going to see if I can sort the over-heating fuel problems on it while the engineering on the other engine goes on.
The first picture I took before starting machining, the last two pictures were taken after surfacing and before the blocked bolt holes were re-drilled and threaded but the unevenness evident is just grease smeared on to stop surface rusting again as the weather is very wet here at present.

My brother John has straightened out his burner on his 1910 White after it was hit by the broken propshaft on the Cotswold’s tour and now is tackling the pilot light which is flaring up uncontrollably. He may well have a crack in the bronze casting if it is not a leaking junction. We are all awaiting Peter Stevenson’s new White pilot lights that he is making!
Bob




Edited 2 times. Last edit at 11/08/15 06:50AM by Steamcarbob.

12.12.2015
For the last month, I have been very idle in the workshop as I have had a painful back problem. I have done small jobs like sorting out the machine lights and some other small jobs. Sitting waiting for me is the crank-shaft of engine H4, out of the car and on the bench. I am half way through sorting the high pressure big end ball bearings. I had sorted the center and needed two thou off the outside ( the big end with no removable casing in it) when I had to stop. I was about to fix it in the lathe and mount up the grinding gear. This is perhaps an over-ambitious project for a home workshop but using a few thou oversized balls I have done this before with the valve strap bearings with good success. They do however take a lot less stress than the big end and I will have to carefully run the engine in as usual.
I have been catching up with paper work and doing an article for SACA. Perhaps it is time for a quick up-date on Whistling Billy’s history as I have it at present. I gradually find more articles and pictures from newspapers as they come on line usually in the USA although new pictures recently came from France and Australia. The text I have slightly modified;

Whistling Billy 's History
Whites made about 10,000 steam cars between 1900 and 1911 and at least 6 racing cars, the most successful being Whistling Billy. Early cars included in 1902 a tiller steered racer, in 1903 the “White Turtle” , the “White Snail” and Mr Frank A. Garbutt’s White racer “who has been smashing all the old records both on the track and on the road and has dazed the professional drivers of the big racing cars hereabouts”(quote from the 1903 October White Bulletin). In 1905 Whites a large 30hp car with condenser and probably a 40 hp steam generator was also built and called the “Vanderbilt racer” designed for longer distances and sometimes mistakenly called Whistling Billy. It was not a great success.

Whistling Billy, initially called “White Rocket” until renamed by the public, was first tested on 5th May 1905 and was under continuous development until 1912 although sold by Whites in 1906. The company told us in their advertising literature that the car was made using standard touring car parts. Whistling Billy became the car to try to beat and raced in the open class against the big petrol cars always on the dirt surfaces of the horse tracks as tarmac, wood or brick racing surfaces were not yet available. I have found no records yet of Billy racing on these surfaces later but the USA is a large place and few of these racks were available.
On July 4th 1905, driven by Webb Jay, it took almost 4 seconds off the World track record for the mile at 48.35 seconds ( 73.75 mph average on a dirt oval) beating all the large petrol cars by a long way. The driver Webb Jay wrote a report in “The White Bulletin” stating that he had won many races with Whistling Billy with the prize money amounting to thousands of dollars. He believed that he was driving the fastest car in America at the time.
With Webb Jay unsighted by the dirt, on 24th August 1905 Billy hit the railings while overtaking. Landing in a pond Jay suffered a broken leg, a broken arm, 9 broken ribs with a flail chest and a head injury. The New York Herald had its headline “Fatal Injury to White Driver” but he survived against the odds, one report stating that he had 27 fractures and was nearly a year in hospital. The White brothers gave up racing after the accident as they considered it too dangerous. They set Webb Jay up with a White agency selling cars.
Charlie Bair, who has at least four books written about him, was a farmer with up to 300,000 sheep, a banker and a business man based in Billings, then a new town in Montana where the east and west sections of the trans-continental railway had joined. Charlie was always looking for somewhere to make a few dollars although he would often give money away building hospitals and schools and even to people setting up in business. He had made a lot of money on the Klondike gold rush mainly by selling steam lances for cutting out the permafrost ground although he had some good gold also from his stake-out. He persuaded Whites reluctantly to repair and sell him Billy in a deal buying two White tourers and a White runabout as well. He did not drive the cars himself but employed drivers.
In 1907 and 1908 Billy won the big prize money for the Kansas Post Chase after a rebuild by Van Luenen in Chicago who wrote to Charlie that it was now capable of 2 miles per minute in the straight line (120mph). It took the 5 mile World track record. A famous driver at the time who drove amongst other cars “The Green Dragon”, Barney Oldfield complained that “he had raced against Billy thirteen times and was yet to get the better of it!”
In October 1908 Billy “hit a Negro and rolled over” sustaining little damage to the car which had a few nuts and bolts tightened before it won the next race but the newspaper report two days later ended that “the driver is now in hospital with his broken shoulder”.
On Boxing Day 1908 the driver was thrown clear as Billy “somersaulted three times over end to end down the track in a ball of flame and burnt out after smashing a front wheel”. I have seen a report stating that this incident was caused by some-one throwing a boulder in front of the car and smashing the wheel. There was a lot of gambling on the outcome of the races at this time.
After the rebuild, the speed of the car had considerably increased by using the strong and shorter 1909 engine which uses Joy valve gear, two piston valves, and has few moving parts. The steam pressure was increased from 800 to 1200 psi. The weight was reduced by over 400 lbs from 19 cwt (2128 lbs) to 1700 lbs. It was now on smaller wheels and was 18 inches shorter. This version is easily recognised by the square “chimney cover” on the hood. I have found no evidence yet as to how much of the original car was used but some parts appear identical including the armoured wooden chassis with its flitch plates and the gear levers as evident in the final picture of the crashed car.
In 1909 Billy toured the West Coast of America entering 29 races and won all 29 while taking many state and track records. Owner Charlie Bair states at a celebration dinner on its return to Billings in January 1910 that “Billy had a clean sheet for the year”.
Whistling Billy continued winning races usually driven by Fred Dundee. Fred states in one article that the car was lapping the one mile ovals in the eighties where most of the cars were still in the sixties.
On July 9th 1912 Billy was finally destroyed in another accident in Portland Oregon when, during practice, driver Chris Dundee (Fred’s younger brother) went through the railings, over a 30ft bank and sustained two broken legs and a broken arm amongst other injuries. Chris thought that something had broken on the car to cause the accident. Whistling Billy was broken in half and since Whites had stopped making steam cars in 1910, it was not rebuilt. The sub-frame to mount the engine was no longer required as the 1909 engine mounts low down, hence the chassis is seen broken at about engine level at the end.
The wreck seems to have lingered behind Charlie Bair’s solicitor’s office before being moved to a farm. Fred Dundee states in a newspaper article that he used the engine in his boat. I do not know if the car was still owned by Charlie Bair or when it was sold or more likely given to Fred Dundee.
The late Dick Hempel told me years ago that they had searched the farm and found only some small parts with very large jets from the car. When in Chickasha with Derrick Mills in 2004 Joe Ersland had a rear axle that was said to have been on Billy but it was a 1909-10 30hp rear axle with two gears which could well have been used after the accident in 1908 or later. I have rebuilt the early version of Billy with its special single high speed axle.
Bob

Hi Robert,
I have read that when Warren S Weiant Jr had finished restoring his 1907 White model H (now owned by Jay Leno) he said the following:
"It was during this period of searching for parts that I learned of a man living in California by the name of Dundee. He had informed me that he and his brother, back in 1912, owned the original "Whistling Billy", having purchased it after Webb Jay's time. The car had been raced by Dundee at various tracks during that period, and at one time in Portland, Oregan, against Barney Oldfield, Dundee drove the fastest mile of the day in 43 seconds flat. Later on, Billy was taken down and the works put into a speed boat. For many years Billy's parts were in Mr Dundee's barn, and I was most fortunate in finding several items that I needed badly and Mr. Dundee let me have. One of which is Billy's popvalve."
Information courtesy of Light Steam Power, Jan-Feb 1963.
Best Wishes
George