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unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: (---.218.broadband.iol.cz)
Date: August 4, 2008 02:55PM

Hello,
we are new to this forum and would like to ask for help, if possible (By "we" I mean me (Lukas) and Martin - non-english speaking friend on whose behalf I write - we both come from Czech republic).

Recently, we came across a previously modified Locomobile, which we are supposed to help repair (Martin beiing an expert on steam engines - see www.ekotechnickemuseum.cz ).

The problem is, we are unable to identify it and find proper info - we had no luck on the web (images or Stanley Register etc.) and found no mentions elsewhere. We seem to have too many contradictory indications: The general look, body-to-suspension spring style, the confusing (at least for us) original tags and serial numbers (chassis ser. number (3767) - style not indicated vs. engine number (Mason n. 2984, 3 1/8 x 4), patent numbers on tag go just till July 1901 only), two jet burner etc.

Would somebody be so kind and help us identify the type and find more info, especially how a pilot burner for two-jet main burner should look like and what type of steering the vehicle originaly used (the installed one does not seem original)? Is there somebody able to make new bolted boiler according to original plans (we only have original superheater and flue sheet)?

Couple images just for an idea:







More images can be downloaded as a .zip ( 1.4 MB ) file from here


Thanks very much

Lukas and Martin

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: August 6, 2008 10:19AM

Hi Lukas and Martin

It certainly has many locomobile features and I would consider this most likley to be a locomobile, but the suspension and spring arrangement for the front of the car is certainly unusal. It looks very similar to the 1903 locomobile featured in John Bentley's Oldtime Steam Cars on page 58, except for the front springs! However, so many cars of this era were similar, it could have been a one off or a modified locomobile. I would be interested to learn what other members make of it. It would be too easy to speculate. I can not find any reference to this type of suspension, but who knows this could have been a modification at a later date or Locomobile themselves trying out an idea before accepting double full elliptical springs to the front of their heavier cars in 1903.

SG

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: (---.218.broadband.iol.cz)
Date: August 6, 2008 02:43PM

Hello Stuart,

thanks for your answer. The thing is, we are fairly sure this vehicle started its life as a Locomobile - we have 3 removable brass tags (serial number tag, patents tag and trade mark tag), some other parts are also marked "Locomobile" - please see images.

The front spring arrangement is not very clear on the previous pictures, so I add one more.

"It looks very similar to the 1903 locomobile featured in John Bentley's Oldtime Steam Cars on page 58, except for the front springs!" - It is almost impossible for us to find this book over here - would it be possible for you to send us an image or the type of the vehicle (locomobile@centrum.cz)?

Many more images are available, should they help. Just didn't want to block the post smiling smiley






Thanks very much smiling smiley

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: (---.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
Date: August 6, 2008 09:49PM

I just looked at Donald Ball's excellent and detailed book, _The Genealogy of the Locomobile Steam Carriage, 1899-1904_, available from the Stanley Museum, [www.stanleymuseum.org] . Neither its photos nor its catalog reproductions show any cars with this transverse & longitudinal half-elliptic front suspension - they are all either a single transverse full-elliptic, or two longitudinal full-elliptics.

In fact, I looked through all of _Oldtime Steam Cars_ (as I'm sure Stuart did), which shows pictures of 85 different makes, as well as Floyd Clymer's _Steam Car Scrapbook_, which shows quite a variety of cars from about 1903-1905 - none showed this suspension.

Several images in Ball's book show passenger boxes in front of the footwell, but none have the shape and proportion of the one on this car. One modern photo shows a car with a steering wheel, but it has a much larger reverse lever. Your car's reverse lever and inside throttle lever position look like those pictured for earlier models. The Locomobile picture in _Oldtime Steam Cars_ is essentially identical to the modern photo - the viewing angle is even the same. Oh, and the car in that photo has hub brakes rather than a differential brake.

The burner pictured in the book, which Ball says was essentially unchanged during Locomobile's production, shows holes of a larger diameter and in a different pattern.

All images in Ball's book, as well as those in _Oldtime Steam Cars_, show the boiler water level gauge near the forward edge of the seat.

Ball shows a Mason engine that he says was only used for the first few cars. It doesn't have the bracing crosspiece below the crankshaft or the heavy mountings for auxiliaries on its frame. By 1900, Locomobile were using an engine of their own development, which went through another 4 design changes. The engine in your photographs more closely resembles the later Locomobile engines, but I can't get enough detail from the pictures in the book to make any conclusion.

One more item of interest is the rear axle housing. In addition to the vertical bow, there is a horizontal bow in front of the axle housing - the axle-end casting has sockets for 3 tubes to accommodate it. This style axle housing doesn't appear in any of the book's images. In addition, the tubing on both front and rear axle housings, and the axle-end castings, just look somehow "huskier" than in the book's illustrations.

Quite an intriguing mystery! Hopefully this vague information will somehow move you ahead a little bit.


Kelly Williams
Mount Joy, PA USA

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Brad Austin (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date: August 7, 2008 11:10PM

Greetings!

I believe I have some information in identifying your car. I am the owner of a very original 1903 Locomobile Stanhope B, serial #4567. It is the one that appears in Don Ball's book, bottom of page 29 and others. In the book, my car is incorrectly labelled as a Touring Model B. The pictures shown of your car are fascinating to me because of the similarities and differences. Since it has the front box seat and stylish design like the stanhope, it is a Locomobile Touring B. I believe it is a late 1902/early 1903. The 1902 features I see on the car are: wire wheels, boiler level guage in 1902 location, steam guage only goes to 300 pounds, brake only on the differential, and no engine cover. The 1903 feature I see is the steering wheel, although I'm not sure if it is original. It could be an upgrade or later change from the side tiller. The 1903's had a "pulley" around the top of the steering column where a storm apron tied. Also 1903's had the throttle in a quadrant on the steering column and wood wheels. The burner looks like a later add on, but the cover above it looks original. The 2 venturi's appear to be a later add on.

What is really interesting is the chassis. The front and rear axles look to be genuine Locomobile. The springs in the rear are larger than my Stanhope, but they look authentic. What is amazing, even with the light blue paint, the striping is of the authentic design! I've been documenting the original striping on my car and it's the same. I just looked at a copy of a Floyd Clymer reprint of the 1903 Locomobile catalog. It shows the Touring B with that transverse spring in the front and step plates. I would say it is authentic! It's just a very rare car. According to the catalog, in 1903 the Touring B cost $2400! (American). That was a lot of money.

If you could tell me the wheelbase, we'd probably have the answer to the year. 1902 Touring B was 73 inches. 1903 Touring B was 79 inches. The serial number is 1902. Art Hart use to have #4096 with all the 1902 attributes.

Feel free to email me at brad206@gmail.com I have some pictures to send...or let me know how to link them in here. It's been fun researching your car!

Brad Austin
Seattle WA




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08/07/08 11:12PM by Brad Austin.

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (Moderator)
Date: August 8, 2008 03:46AM


Hi Brad,

To show pictures on this Forum you need to up-load them to a web based host

(web ste) and then place a link in your Forum post, the code will look like

this.....

[img]http://www.(your picture web address).jpg[/img]


and your pictures will be shown, keep the pictures small or they will overload the

system, hope this helps, Jeff.

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Mike Clark (---.nrth.adsl.virgin.net)
Date: August 8, 2008 06:03PM

680 x 480 pixels is the usual size for a web forum picture. You will find that your web photo hosting site can resize pictures automatically.

Mike

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Brad Austin (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date: August 9, 2008 09:52PM

Here's a link to some Locomobile pictures that I put together. [cid-5f75268df2f60d67.spaces.live.com] Locomobile made the small carriage throughout production. The larger cars did have larger chassis. The Touring B appears to have a larger chassis than my 1903 Stanhope B. I believe this is due to the fact it's a heavier car with the front passenger compartment. If you check out the link, you'll see an original ad from Floyd Clymers reproduction of a 1903 Locomobile catalog. It has the transverse arrangement barely showing in the ad. I would say this is one rare car!

Brad Austin
Seattle WA

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Brad Austin (---.tukw.qwest.net)
Date: August 10, 2008 01:49PM

Here's a link to Locomobile Stanhope B #4447. It is becoming operational again.

[picasaweb.google.com]

Re: unidentified Locomobile
Posted by: Peter Wueringer (85.124.128.---)
Date: August 11, 2008 09:21AM

Hello,
it is rather interesting to find an steam car nearby in this phorum. I am living in Vienna and restored a locomobile some years ago,You can find further informations at [www.stanleysteamers.com]
If you are interested please contact me an ziviling@wueringer.net

Greetings from Vienna

Peter Wueringer

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